tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post3692804976905253343..comments2024-02-21T05:16:22.788-05:00Comments on Two Weeks Notice: A Latin American Politics Blog: Media persecution in CubaGreg Weekshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15765114859595124082noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-3998241389869633742010-07-13T14:46:54.726-04:002010-07-13T14:46:54.726-04:00Boli, you simply are reciting right-wing Cuban tal...Boli, you simply are reciting right-wing Cuban talking points, hardly anything backed up by any real FACTS. <br /><br />No was was jailed for their long hair in Cuba. No one. <br /><br />No one was given prison sentences JUST for protesting. Remember during the 1960s and 1970s the CIA was backing all sorts counter-revolutionary groups, who were part of sabotage (terrorist) operations. These are the people who were jailed. <br /><br />There have been no credible reports of real torture in Cuban jails. Compare that to the region and they have quite a good record.<br /><br />The only people executed after the Revolution were murderers. And no one really disputes that they were guilty. Plenty of evidence on the deaths of tens of thousands Cubans under Batista was available. The Cuban people demanded justice by an overwhelming majority. Frankly, Fidel was noted for having argued against the executions, but the people hungered for it. <br /><br />And you can't compare people who were kidnapped off the streets of Argentina, tortured and executed without a trace to the transparent process Cuban murderers and collaborators faced. And you can't compare torturing and executing someone for alleged foreign ties, versus having a trial and jailing them (and now releasing them well early)leftsidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00676827005815770066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-40674737116025894212010-07-10T20:32:24.130-04:002010-07-10T20:32:24.130-04:00Leftside also conveniently forgets that Castro'...Leftside also conveniently forgets that Castro's 50 years in power. The regime has around 50 political prisoners it may fee now, but thats the tip of the iceberg of half a century of communism. <br /><br />FACTS LEFTSIDE - <br /><br />hundreds (if not thousands) of summary executions result of kangaroo Courts. If some of them were Batista soldiers doesn't matter. That is the same as the Argentinian Junta defending summary executions of Montoneros. Even evil people deserve a fair trial. And the government executed people in its own ranks<br /><br />10's of thousands of persons jailed for some form of opposition, or for being vaguely "counterrevolutionary" or having long hair.<br /><br />thousands tortured in jail - as recounted by Armando Valladares among others.<br /><br />hundreds of thousands driven to exile. <br /><br />That is a consistent pattern of human rights violations by the same government. Even if they don't kill people now - or send thousands to re-education camps, its still the SAME government, led by the same party, and same old dictator.Boli-Nicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416904838567704211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-949669551750556022010-07-10T20:00:04.932-04:002010-07-10T20:00:04.932-04:00Leftside the fact remains that Cuba's regime i...Leftside the fact remains that Cuba's regime is a dictatorship, which violates the fundamental rights of its citizens, imprisoning them for overt dissent. The overall effect is a climate of fear and silence. That is the conclusion reached by both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. Hardly right wing organizations - and actually criticized for focusing too much on right wing regimes. <br /><br />Who cares if dissidents get a fax machine from the U.S.I.S.? <br /><br />If you apply that same criteria to the Mothers of the Disapeared or even the Disapeared in Argentina, you can justify the military's<br />position. Well some of the imprisoned did have contact with foreign powers at war with the Argentinian State. Maybe they got a fax machine from Sweden. Hey the laws were on the books according to Videla.Boli-Nicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416904838567704211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-56994630487889637292010-07-10T11:07:04.350-04:002010-07-10T11:07:04.350-04:00Saddam Hussein, General Franco and Anasasio Somoza...Saddam Hussein, General Franco and Anasasio Somoza also won plebiscites by similar margins. Gimme a break, Lefty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-9716230944393354362010-07-09T20:25:44.266-04:002010-07-09T20:25:44.266-04:00Too bad I missed all this.
Boli, more than name-...Too bad I missed all this. <br /><br />Boli, more than name-calling, what offends me is that you seem unwilling to engage the facts and claims I've presented. Instead you seem interested in erecting a straw man to fit your sterotypes. <br /><br />Again, if you can show me ANYONE in prison for their writings or speech, I will back them and denounce the repression. However, I have actually read the evidence against the folks Amnesty considers Prisoners of Conscience (soon to be released) and found they were associating with and doing the work of the US Government. This simply can not be tolerated while the US maintains a large budget for regime change operations on the island. Again, the US maintains the same policy against associating with Cuban diplomats, or Hamas diplomats, or anyone else we consider a threat. Fact is, the US has been and continues to be a threat to Cuban national security. If the US drops its regime change policy I will be the first to call on Cuba to make substantial reforms to their laws in this area. <br /><br />The Cuban people have made a choice for socialism, like it or not Boli. They reaffirmed it in a 2002 referendum whereby the vast majority of people (9 million) voted in support of the notion that socialism is irrevocable (after marches of several million people in the streets). This was in direct response to the US backed Varela project, a signature campaign that sought to change the socialist oreintation of the Constitution (and got very little support, despite President Carter backing it on live national Cuban television). <br /><br />You and Amnesty can complain all you want about the laws on the books in Cuba. Even I may disagree with some. But the fact that the only people in jail they can find to cite as repressed all had contacts with the US Government, should tell you something. Either the laws are not as bad as you think, or they are effectively not being enforced, or there is really very little dissent in Cuba. Which one do you choose. I think it is a combination of all 3.leftsidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00676827005815770066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-40146736413113156302010-07-07T01:41:00.701-04:002010-07-07T01:41:00.701-04:00Lets take this back to basics - Cuba's Constit...Lets take this back to basics - Cuba's Constitution says the following<br /><br /><i>[n]one of the freedoms which are recognized for citizens can be exercised contrary to what is established in the Constitution and law, or contrary to the existence and objectives of the socialist state, or contrary to the decision of the Cuban people to build socialism and communism.</i><br /><br />On its face, the document that enunciates the basic rights and responsibilites of the citizenry of the Cuban Nation-State, heavily curtails free speech.<br /><br />As Amnesty says on top of the basic restriction of speech - <br /><i><br />The Penal code specifies a range of vague criminal charges that can also be used to stifle dissent, such as "social dangerousness", "enemy propaganda", "contempt of authority", "resistance", "defamation of national institutions" and "clandestine printing".</i><br /><br /><br />In practice, this maze of restrictions and laws in single-party rule results in a situation that Amnesty describes - <br /><br /><i>With a judiciary that is neither independent, nor impartial, critics of the government find that an unlimited range of acts can be interpreted as criminal and end up facing trials that are often summary and unfair.</i><br /><br />It is this situation under single party rule that Leftside defends blindly. A country where punitive laws, covering wide types of behavior, are enforced by a repressive state apparatus.<br /><br />Leftside continues to repeat all sorts of absurd excuses and justifications - many of them straight out of Granma. I mean, its clear that the Cuban regimes very underpinnings (think "Constitution") are repressive and undemocratic in theory and in practice.<br /><br />It is Leftsides continuous repeating of this kind of nonense that opens him up to being called out. comparing him to 1930's Stalinists seems pretty spot-on.Boli-Nicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416904838567704211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-21107301527745563352010-07-07T00:59:05.897-04:002010-07-07T00:59:05.897-04:00Say what you will, Boli-Nica, but I would never go...Say what you will, Boli-Nica, but I would never go so far out on a limb as to cavalierly use terms like "Stalinist" in reference to a person with whom I simply disagree.<br /><br />For you to call Steve Ellner a "Stalinist" is every bit as slanderous as it would be for me to call you a "Hitlerite."Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-6835268756250602792010-07-06T22:37:54.271-04:002010-07-06T22:37:54.271-04:00But even if we were to accept your questionable de...<i><br />But even if we were to accept your questionable definition of what the "fringe" is, that wouldn't justify your outlandish assertions that any such person on the "fringe" who disagrees with you is a "Stalinist." To cavalierly employ such heated rhetoric is irresponsible.</i><br /><br />hahahahahahahahahahahaha<br /><br />While its easy to be slightly hypocritical online, you really take it to the limit. You can really turn on a dime - from the angry and indignant hard-leftist, trashing opponents to the pompous windbag sanctimoniously lecturing everyone who acts....well like you do sometimes....Boli-Nicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416904838567704211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-24828846581797505622010-07-06T20:29:44.148-04:002010-07-06T20:29:44.148-04:00Anyways, anyone who writes for Z magazine is prett...<i>Anyways, anyone who writes for Z magazine is pretty much on the fringe.</i><br /><br />Steve Ellner is a respected historian who is published in both conventional journals and left-wing publications.<br /><br />But even if we were to accept your questionable definition of what the "fringe" is, that wouldn't justify your outlandish assertions that any such person on the "fringe" who disagrees with you is a "Stalinist." To cavalierly employ such heated rhetoric is irresponsible.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-66053462863961101772010-07-06T18:26:47.307-04:002010-07-06T18:26:47.307-04:00Uh, no, Boli-Nica, you don't just attack peopl...<i><br />Uh, no, Boli-Nica, you don't just attack people on the so-called "fringe." You even had the gall to call Steve Ellner a "Stalinist." There is quite an ugly pattern here.</i><br /><br />hey I resent that! <br />I usually preface Stalnism with some other term, like "neo"or "retro". <br /><br />Anyways, anyone who writes for Z magazine is pretty much on the fringe.Boli-Nicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416904838567704211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-19736701573406496682010-07-06T12:39:32.500-04:002010-07-06T12:39:32.500-04:00It is one thing to argue with reasonable people - ...<i>It is one thing to argue with reasonable people - left, right or center. But, the further you move to the fringes, the nuttier people get.</i><br /><br />Uh, no, Boli-Nica, you don't just attack people on the so-called "fringe." You even had the gall to call Steve Ellner a "Stalinist." There is quite an ugly pattern here.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-80523195517157201992010-07-06T12:26:05.051-04:002010-07-06T12:26:05.051-04:00LOL..Justin-he-who-continually-refers-to-Boz-as-a-...<i>LOL..Justin-he-who-continually-refers-to-Boz-as-a-hack-among-other-instances-of-serial-name-calling- now says I'm crass.</i><br /><br />Supposing it were true that I was so annoyed by Boz that I was often crass with him, it would be no less true that to constantly call people with whom you disagree "Stalinist" is also crass. <br /><br />Besides that, Boz has not allowed commenting on his blog for over two years now, so I'd say you're grasping on this one.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-67816016246431653282010-07-06T03:52:46.074-04:002010-07-06T03:52:46.074-04:00Justin calling someone crass is like Hannibal Lect...<i>Justin calling someone crass is like Hannibal Lecter advocating a vegan diet.</i><br /><br />If I were really so crass, I would hide behind an anonymous identity like you do.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-37591010693236832962010-07-06T03:31:56.136-04:002010-07-06T03:31:56.136-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-3097638781698685372010-07-06T02:54:25.828-04:002010-07-06T02:54:25.828-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-51490701138831187462010-07-06T02:34:18.493-04:002010-07-06T02:34:18.493-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-66544110212648852782010-07-06T01:43:42.874-04:002010-07-06T01:43:42.874-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-82867314064221776102010-07-06T01:39:15.873-04:002010-07-06T01:39:15.873-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-20096727791687469842010-07-06T01:37:36.895-04:002010-07-06T01:37:36.895-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-74733716205688190412010-07-06T01:20:20.351-04:002010-07-06T01:20:20.351-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-16455163559503500742010-07-06T00:57:25.297-04:002010-07-06T00:57:25.297-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-56802136753103858672010-07-06T00:27:11.556-04:002010-07-06T00:27:11.556-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-3155951200121179452010-07-05T23:14:14.152-04:002010-07-05T23:14:14.152-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-74199254341775611952010-07-05T23:06:39.997-04:002010-07-05T23:06:39.997-04:00LOL..Justin-he-who-continually-refers-to-Boz-as-a-...LOL..Justin-he-who-continually-refers-to-Boz-as-a-hack-among-other-instances-of-serial-name-calling- now says I'm crass. <br /><br />It is one thing to argue with reasonable people - left, right or center. But, the further you move to the fringes, the nuttier people get. <br /><br />On the left-right dial, Leftside is more to the left than the Teabaggers are to the right. And the tea party types are full of crackpots. <br /><br />And on the fringe, extremist ideologues like leftside, parroting long-discredited views deserve to be called out for what they are. From Leftside's rants, it is clear he would feel comfortable defending the Moscow Show Trials and trashing Trotsky. <br /><br />I mean its clear dude is way over the top.Boli-Nicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416904838567704211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-51748305503534710632010-07-05T21:21:45.937-04:002010-07-05T21:21:45.937-04:00Justin calling someone crass is like Hannibal Lect...Justin calling someone crass is like Hannibal Lecter advocating a vegan diet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com