tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post2146801563757689648..comments2024-02-21T05:16:22.788-05:00Comments on Two Weeks Notice: A Latin American Politics Blog: Micheletti and shifting sandGreg Weekshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15765114859595124082noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-26554342216363898402009-07-22T03:13:41.987-04:002009-07-22T03:13:41.987-04:00thanks for sharing.......
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Sha...thanks for sharing.......<br /><br />___________________<br />Sharon<br /><a href="http://www.directstartv.com/jump.html?referID=oa-0-173189" rel="nofollow">The only Satellite Television Delivers the Best Value in Entertainment</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-8974652286547636172009-07-16T22:24:10.548-04:002009-07-16T22:24:10.548-04:00Raj -
Thanks for putting a bit of a brake on my r...Raj -<br /><br />Thanks for putting a bit of a brake on my rather lay observations. My experience in Honduras and Guatemala are from a commercial background, and I can only speak from that.<br /><br />Nonetheless, I have always been impressed by how quick Hondurans are to find a solution to whatever dispute they might face. Now, whether that is a simple 'papering-over' or that reflects a genuine finding of common ground I don't have the confidence to say.Doug Zylstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023935711242140793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-18103387699202992682009-07-16T22:03:08.842-04:002009-07-16T22:03:08.842-04:00Having conducted research in Honduras for more tha...Having conducted research in Honduras for more than thirty years, living there most of the time over a period of four years doing my doctoral research, I am trying to decide if I agree with Doug that Hondurans are inherently less likely to hold historical grudges. As an anthropologist, I shy away from "national character" arguments. <br /><br />But I think there is something here, which has to do with the fact that Hondurans have in the twentieth century had to deal with political divisions that cut through families. The Honduran historian DarĂo Euraque, in a brilliant and as-yet unpublished talk, used a single photograph of a wedding among the power elite in the 1940s as a prompt. Those in attendance, working people, not elites, recognized who the people in the photos were, and knew the political stories (the dictator, the general, the future president who would be deposed by a coup) and also, clearly, the familial relations.<br /><br />That common sense of history has probably helped Hondurans remake peace when needed. But I also am mindful of an exchange between Dr. Euraque and the Minister of Culture, Rodolfo Pastor Fasquelle, about the past histories of violence by the parties to which each one's family belonged, in which one family member was imprisoned and another shot. These also are part of the social memory of the country.<br /><br />And I worry when Pastor Fasquelle writes that the country is more polarized today than ever before. So much wealth entered the economy in the past 25 years, and it has made the economic divide literally impossible to ignore.<br /><br />But I would like to believe that the fundamental posture of the Honduran people towards each other will help heal the wounds created by this coup. And I do think the kinds of institutionalized barriers between segments of the populace that allow more enduring polarization in Guatemala (especially racial/ethnic divisions) have not been so hardened in recent years. Problem is, they are deployed in the current crisis, and that could be some of the lasting damage.RAJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00097415587406899236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-75487115522649531372009-07-16T20:53:08.178-04:002009-07-16T20:53:08.178-04:00Your confusing me with another "Will", I...<i>Your confusing me with another "Will", I didn't write anywhere that Zelaya's wings needed to be clipped..</i><br /><br />My apologies, Will. Indeed, I had you confused with the other anonymous.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-63278975109190816172009-07-16T17:58:52.452-04:002009-07-16T17:58:52.452-04:00Ugh..
Will seek..
Carry on.Ugh.. <br /><br />Will seek.. <br /><br /><br />Carry on.Doug Zylstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023935711242140793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-33845316431040523342009-07-16T17:57:52.872-04:002009-07-16T17:57:52.872-04:00You're right, passivity can be a negative side...You're right, passivity can be a negative side effect of someone who doesn't go looking for a fight, but I think at this moment, it's not so germane of a criticism. What has made me proud is that Hondurans have indeed stood up, not simply for 'Mel', but for their own vote, their voice at the electoral urn. And that will carry forward and be strong plus and source of pride for a long while. <br /><br />But the original point was simply answering Gabriel's doubts that all institutions will be at war with Zelaya upon his return. I said I doubt that, simply because I don't think that Hondurans have an ingrained sense of hostility for it's own sake, and if an amnesty deal is set up for all around, eillseek to to put this current moment of tension behind them.Doug Zylstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023935711242140793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-10668762527749742642009-07-16T17:45:09.047-04:002009-07-16T17:45:09.047-04:00Confusion about who is talking is common when peop...Confusion about who is talking is common when people do not log in to Blogger. I am fine if people comment anonymously for their own reasons, but my suggestion is that anyone who is interested in participating in debate log in with some sort of "handle" so that everyone knows to whom they should direct responses.Greg Weekshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15765114859595124082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-71441368182146469972009-07-16T17:11:09.916-04:002009-07-16T17:11:09.916-04:00Doug,
You write that :
"Having lived there ...Doug,<br /><br />You write that :<br /><br />"Having lived there off and on for ten years, my experience was that Hondurans are less interested in exploiting differences and more about finding ways ameliorate their often fairly precarious personal situations. "<br /><br />My understanding of the state of working conditions in Honduran export processing zones and banana plantations is that a great deal of exploitation is taking place and elites within in the country have no problem taking advantage of other people's "precarious personal situations"..is that not correct?<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />WillAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-45547772130089414662009-07-16T17:06:29.064-04:002009-07-16T17:06:29.064-04:00Justin,
Your confusing me with another "Will...Justin,<br /><br />Your confusing me with another "Will", I didn't write anywhere that Zelaya's wings needed to be clipped..I like birds and I hate to see them in cages or with clipped wings...I am also opposed to military coups. I also don't care very much cultural analyses that attempt to essentialize groups of people in a particular manner..<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />Will (the one who did NOT write anything about Zelaya being clipped)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-13428782742874454272009-07-16T17:05:33.644-04:002009-07-16T17:05:33.644-04:00Having lived there off and on for ten years, my ex...Having lived there off and on for ten years, my experience was that Hondurans are less interested in exploiting differences and more about finding ways ameliorate their often fairly precarious personal situations. I think when Zelaya is finally restored, this trait will come in handy. <br /><br />Compare that to the situation in Nicaragua, for example, where being pugnacious is almost a point of pride, or Guatemala, where reticence has made the country, even years after the peace treaty was signed, still seem silently at war. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm fairly optimistic these division will sort themselves out without too much strife.Doug Zylstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023935711242140793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-18659934917835725452009-07-16T16:06:40.919-04:002009-07-16T16:06:40.919-04:00Hondurans are like big teddy bears?
No, Will, the...<i>Hondurans are like big teddy bears?</i><br /><br />No, Will, they're birds whose wings need to be clipped. Or at least that's what you told us about Zelaya.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-35392395355084405302009-07-16T15:46:02.553-04:002009-07-16T15:46:02.553-04:00Doug,
You write:
"I am thinking in general ...Doug,<br /><br />You write:<br /><br />"I am thinking in general terms about the Honduran character, which is fairly soft and round-edged"<br /><br />Hondurans are like big teddy bears?<br /><br />-WillAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-56233452407394178742009-07-16T13:58:38.155-04:002009-07-16T13:58:38.155-04:00The idea that Micheletti should step aside and Zel...<i>The idea that Micheletti should step aside and Zelaya return without any conditions begs the question of what happens next, since there's an arrest order for him.</i><br /><br />Well, let them arrest Zelaya, then. <br /><br />The problem, Gabriel, is that they're too afraid to do it because they know that, if they do it, Zelaya's detention would become such a focal point of protest that it would imperil the governability of the country.Justin Delacourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01343303383195336825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-88403817942793897972009-07-16T11:23:41.540-04:002009-07-16T11:23:41.540-04:00Gabriel-
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there i...Gabriel-<br /><br />Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there is less resentment than might be expected, for example, in a country like Guatemala. I am thinking in general terms about the Honduran character, which is fairly soft and round-edged.<br />Specifically, General Vasquez' comments Greg pointed out that showed a personal warmth toward Zelaya, in spite of everything that had happened.Doug Zylstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023935711242140793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-17241106981142850052009-07-16T11:12:16.159-04:002009-07-16T11:12:16.159-04:00They may become pointless if an all parties agree ...They may become pointless if an all parties agree to an amnesty. But they are not pointless today since that country's legitimate institutions have made their views clear.<br /><br />And if they are to agree to an amnesty, what will Zelaya give up in return? The idea that Micheletti should step aside and Zelaya return without any conditions begs the question of what happens next, since there's an arrest order for him.Gabrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07170544582490033719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-17143513093692496052009-07-16T11:06:14.981-04:002009-07-16T11:06:14.981-04:00Gabriel, I think these are pointless questions bec...Gabriel, I think these are pointless questions because everything is changing so rapidly. In particular, we need to see how the negotiations (or dialogue, or whatever we want to call them) proceed, what becomes of the discussion about amnesty, etc.Greg Weekshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15765114859595124082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-12423975188600522032009-07-16T11:03:35.393-04:002009-07-16T11:03:35.393-04:00You see it as less of a problem, but the instituti...You see it as less of a problem, but the institutions in Honduras disagree. The Attorney General and the judiciary, both perfectly legitImate, have ordered Zelaya arrested if he returns. If that happens, will Zelaya accept it, or will he ignore their rulings and turn to mob rule, as he did just a few weeks ago?Gabrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07170544582490033719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-40679582844318910932009-07-16T10:48:43.486-04:002009-07-16T10:48:43.486-04:00Gabriel-
I see that as much less of a problem tha...Gabriel-<br /><br />I see that as much less of a problem than the other way around, ie. the pro-coup going up against unanimous international condemnation and sanctions.Doug Zylstrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03023935711242140793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21674624.post-16788337174243556572009-07-16T09:50:28.365-04:002009-07-16T09:50:28.365-04:00From Zelaya's perspective Micheletti is but a ...From Zelaya's perspective Micheletti is but a small part of his problems. MIcheletti may not be the legitimate president but Congress certainly is. So is the Supreme Court. So is the Attorney General. So is the Electoral Tribunal. How is Zelaya going to deal with them if he manages to return?Gabrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07170544582490033719noreply@blogger.com