Colombia-Venezuela relations
Hugo Chávez called Alvaro Uribe and the two agreed to meet soon, both to discuss bilateral relations but also to improve the personal relationship between the two. The latter is especially important, because at this point Chávez has insulted Uribe in so many ways that he’d need a thesaurus to find a new one.
Bubbling right under the surface are the laptops, which are currently being examined by Interpol, and Condoleezza Rice’s constant hinting about putting
16 comments:
Chávez has insulted Uribe in so many ways
A typically selective and superficial analysis on Greg's part. Uribe literally threatens the national security of Venezuela (with the politics of Plan Colombia and all the associated threats to Venezuela from the United States, such as the "sponsor of terror" threat). Nevertheless, Greg would prefer to focus on rhetoric.
And notice, of course, that Greg will never ask the question as to whether the "insults" might actually have merit.
In fairness, Venezuela actually mobilized troops on the Col-Ven border, so the situation does go beyond rhetoric, with Ven making the more threatening moves. There is also the open question of how much support Chavez has provided to the FARC, which would be a clear example of threatening Colombian national security.
Back to words, Uribe accused Chavez of funding "genocide"--so there is plenty of rhetoric to go around as well. Still, I suspect that if we made lists of insults, Chavez would win that contest. And there is little doubt that the personal relationship between these men is key to the relationship between the two countries at the moment, so the rhetoric is a worthy issue to address.
"Uribe literally threatens the national security of Venezuela (with the politics of Plan Colombia.."
Plan Colombia threatens Venezuela,how? Perhaps by demonstrating a successful model vs. the Chavez criminal, crumbling regime?
"..and all the associated threats to Venezuela from the United States, such as the "sponsor of terror" threat). "
Boy, that's a stretch. The "associated threats" come from the US(and are validated by the laptops, among other proof) but Uribe and George Bush are apparently one in the same!
"Nevertheless, Greg would prefer to focus on rhetoric."
Nevertheless, Justin would prefer not to focus on the fact his master Chavez gives aid and comfort to the FARC that murders Colombians.
"Greg will never ask the question as to whether the "insults" might actually have merit."
Chavez bootlicker Justin will never address the fact Chavez is indisputably a sponsor of terrorists.
--------------------------
"So it's just false to suggest that Chavez has rhetorically supported the guerrillas' armed struggles."
~Justin Delacour
Who cares if Uribe feels 'insulted'? Seriously, who cares?
As for Condi, no one pays attention to the worthless terrorist sponsors list anymore. If Saudi Arabia and Pakistan aren't on it, then no damn body should be on it.
As for Chavez and Uribe, they can work out their own issues.
In fairness,
Paroquial minions of empire such as yourself are not really capable of coming up with anything approching "fairness" on such matters.
Venezuela actually mobilized troops on the Col-Ven border, so the situation does go beyond rhetoric, with Ven making the more threatening moves.
Ah, yes, Venezuela's mobilization was such a national security threat that Uribe didn't even feel the need to mobilize his own forces on the Colombia-Venezuela border. And never mind that the crisis was spawned by Colombia's bombing of another country's territory.
Ah, yes, but big bad Hugo is the great threat to regional security, as the paroquial American scholars would have it.
There is also the open question of how much support Chavez has provided to the FARC
As long as you can't preface the issue as anything more than a question, whatever conjecture you have to offer about it is of little interest.
Everybody --including Chavez-- knows that the FARC has no chance of taking over Colombia, so the silly proposition that Chavez somehow seeks to bring about such an outcome is patent nonsense. What Chavez wants --and what he's always wanted-- is a negotiated settlement to Colombia's civil conflict.
Paroquial minions of empire such as yourself are not really capable of coming up with anything approching "fairness" on such matters.
So in other words, I should just shut up, I suppose, being the minion that I am and all.
You remind me why I avoid engaging you.
Paroquial minions of empire such as yourself are not really capable of coming up with anything approching "fairness" on such matters.
Is that supposed to be a counter-argument? Sheesh.
...being the minion that I am and all.
Not just a minion, a "paroquial" minion. Get it right :)
"Not just a minion, a "paroquial" minion. Get it right :)"
Imagine the hilarity that would ensue if Justin ever moved his
35 year old ass out of the dorm room and got a real job. He's like a Marxist Dwight Schrute from "The Office."
Notice how this works. When the paroquial minions of empire (Steven, Miguel, Boz and Paul) can't actually debate the points made, they cry foul about insults. That's par for the course.
Fellas: Did the OAS make the right choice in declaring Colombia to be in violation of international law, or not?
"Paroquial" four times and "parochial" twice in two threads. It looks like Justin has a new favorite word but he's not sure how to spell it :)
Ooh, check that out, Boz got me on the spelling!
Now, try making a logical argument, Boz. Let's see if the resident hack can manage that.
"When the paroquial minions of empire (Steven, Miguel, Boz and Paul) can't actually debate the points made, they cry foul about insults. That's par for the course."
Seriously, a Marxist Dwight Schrute.
Justin, when the 18 year olds are playing their music too loud, do you open your door and call them "tools of the oligarchy?"
I think I'll get a t-shirt made up that says, "Parochial/Paroquial Minion of Empire."
I think I'll get a t-shirt made up that says, "Parochial/Paroquial Minion of Empire."
Yeah, in your case, you wouldn't even pretend it ain't so, would you?
For everyone arguing, have any of you even been to Colombia? Or lived and have family there? Or actually followed the political situations until now? Becase honestly I'm tired of dealing with people who havent.
"Ah, yes, Venezuela's mobilization was such a national security threat that Uribe didn't even feel the need to mobilize his own forces on the Colombia-Venezuela border. And never mind that the crisis was spawned by Colombia's bombing of another country's territory."
You do realize that a group of terrorists who have been involved in a near 50 year war were right on the border, living peacefully without any repurcussions from Ecuador right? If you would have switched country positions many other governments would have done the same, though bombing that camp was definetly going to -well frankly- pissed the hell out of Ecuador.
As for the troop mobollizing, what do you think would have happened if Uribe would have mobolized those troops? Three angry, nationalistic armies "facing off" on the borders, not to mention FARC and paramilitary squads, I dont have much of a doubt that a fight, possibly a war, would have broken out.
Besides Chavez thrives in the role of the victim, and without opposing troops it ultimately (including charges of crimes against humanity) showed him as the aggressor, notice he pulled back out almost as fast as he jumped in.
Of course him telling his people on national tv to "prepare for a possible war with colombia" (when Ecuador who had the right to be furious did no such thing)didn;t help either. Not to mention the majority of Venezuelans (I believe it was 78%, please correct me if I;m wrong) were against it. Can you blame them? Their main concern is putting food on the table when there is a food shortage ( of which Colo is the main exporter)
"Ah, yes, but big bad Hugo is the great threat to regional security, as the paroquial American scholars would have it"
Its funny how alot of other Latin American leaders are wary of him, huh. I dont blame them either, tried to start a coup, bribed voters with land (dont even try to deny that one) thinks the entirety of the world is out to assasinate him. Oh and anyone who is willing to waste government money that could be used to help the people on importing food from Argentina (at nearly three times the cost) just to screw with Colombia (who is the main exporter of food) is someone I would worry about.
"Everybody --including Chavez-- knows that the FARC has no chance of taking over Colombia, so the silly proposition that Chavez somehow seeks to bring about such an outcome is patent nonsense. What Chavez wants --and what he's always wanted-- is a negotiated settlement to Colombia's civil conflict."
Thankfully it cant, well atleast not now who knows what would happen if Chavez were to actually back them up, but that doesn't offer any comfort to the millions of displaced Colombians, or to the thousands that have lost their own and loved one's lives, or the hostages, or to places like Cacueta and Uraba (especially the later, my God those people have never really seemed to know peace) that have suffered so much bloodshed.
Chavez also seems pretty interested in getting back New Granda, with the whole "Bolivar Revolution" and constantly calling Colombia "his" (seriously it gets annoying after a while listening to his speeches, he keeps using posessive pronouns in spanish) and currently both economies are hurting from the neighbor's conflicts, so both Uribe and Chavez would probably be wonderfully happy for a change in leader of either.
For someone who seems so interested in negotiations he isn't making alot with Uribe. That and (I would be thrilled if they could finally get a peaceful solution to this, honestly alot of people I've seen are just exhausted from all the violence)negotiations have worked better historically with paramilitaries (for all their own violence, most likely because they aren't fond of the FARC either) than with FARC. They once had a territory the size of Switzerland that was demilitarized and while some hostages were realised nothing really changed in the end. Under Uribe's crackdown, the cities have been at their safest in years (rural areas are about the same though as the FARC and paramilitaries have been pushed back into there) , look at Medellin, which was considered one of the world's most violent and dangerous cities, it's starting to bloom now, and the relief and hope many Colombians are finally starting to feel is something I can personally attest too. FARC, however can be assured that it will never again reach the level that it was once, they have certainly been trying though, 2009 saw the highest amount of FARC attaks in a while. Though both he and Colombia still have a very long way to go. Honestly, I don't he cares all that much for Colombia really, so I really doubt it's whats he's "always wanted".
"And notice, of course, that Greg will never ask the question as to whether the "insults" might actually have merit."
And notice, of course, that Justin has not argues in favor thats these "insults" have "merit" either. And that besides the Andean Crisis, no specific insight of occurences have really been brought up.
...So should I be buying that T-Shirt now?
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